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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
7
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Posted - 2013.06.14 23:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:idk ladies...i mean if we are going to try and crusade against every pervert, rude and uncouth neckbeard in the online gaming world
Spend all the time you want trying to assign victims, there's always a reason a particular group of people becomes the target of hatred. Usually, they project an elitist subculture and openly vulgarize everyone else. (your intro is a perfect example) |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
15
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Posted - 2013.06.19 10:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote:CCP can't fix the dynamic that exists between the genders, but they can work on the population disparity so that the morons/louts harassing women will think twice when there's a greater # of women that will call them out for what kind of people they are.
You think the threat of being accosted by finger-waggers is going to persuade misogynists/foul-mouths? At best you're reinforcing their stereotypes and at worst you're giving them a legitimate reason to dislike you. You're certainly never going to get a properly persuasive argument in if you "call them out" and the FC/whatever authority is going to tell you both to STFU. If Eve lent itself to political correctness it wouldn't be an engaging fantasy world; at very least it would be a very different one and there's no reason for CCP to overhaul their proven business model. If you take time to note the other vulgarity in Eve, you'll quickly note that it doesn't stem from any sort of disparity.
**** ain't a Python convention |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 15:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Elliavir wrote:And yet, oddly enough, as has been mentioned multiple times on this very thread, part of the problem is how rarely anyone else is telling those jerks to STFU and just shoot some stuff. And, once again, we have concern for the feelings of people who are causing the problem rather than any interest in stopping the problem.
The assumption is that it quickly escalated into bickering; if your corp tolerates shouting matches on comms that's probably a more pressing issue.
Elliavir wrote:If EVE can only be an "engaging fantasy world" when a player daring to identify themselves as having double-X chromosomes makes themselves a target for harassment, I question what qualifies as fun for you. And, frankly, if calling people out for blatantly discriminatory behavior gives them a "legitimate reason to dislike" me... who cares? They are already being a waste of biomass with their illegitimate reasons.
Much like the real world, high-stress/high-adrenaline environments encourage vulgarity because it's a release mechanism. People also expect their fantasy world to free them from their more taxing societal obligations (political correctness is certainly near the top of my personal list). The behavior you dislike is a side-effect and very hard to curb. I can't muster a single example where it doesn't manifest.
I resent your implication that I derive my jollies from sexual harassment and since you're advocating equality/proportionate response I'll riposte: High-adrenaline environments also encourage the quick formation/cementing of amicable relationships; I question whether someone who can't quickly work past their initial indignation actually deserves any respect.
Elliavir wrote:Maybe once, just to try it out, we could tell the guys being asshats to HTFU and just accept that they might have to fly their internet spaceships with some female players without freaking out about it - and make their own damn 'sammiches'?
You've tried this I'm sure; how'd it work out? While hatred is the natural response to perceived hatred, it rarely helps. Even if everyone present were to rise up in your defense, the other party will naturally feel alienated and see you as the obvious cause. They presumably don't understand why the behavior was wrong or they wouldn't have done it in the first place; you might eventually get the pavlovian response you're looking for, but it won't be genuine and the prejudice, now reinforced, will surface in other ways.
I don't care to assign victims; certainly not when it involves baser human behavior. I'd encourage you to change your reaction simply because it's the path of least resistance. It's easiest to shatter someone's prejudice when the object defies it. I'm no psychologist, but I believe (until persuaded otherwise) that if you confront the person assertively and in private, explaining the offense in terms they can understand, you'll get much better responses. Yes, it's more work on your part. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
37
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Posted - 2013.06.25 06:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:That's an awareness issue. Just like most men simply don't consider that parking lots and garages are tense and dangerous places for women, or don't register that the look on a woman's face when you get in the elevator with them is one of terror at being raped, because that happens too, because it's just not our experience of things. Once you're aware of these things, it becomes much easier not to say or do something that gets misinterpreted the way your question was.
Your solution is that 98% of the community should step on egg shells for the other 2%? Doesn't sound very efficient.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPcjm-X5GQ |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
37
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Posted - 2013.06.25 13:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:I think only slightly gay men cyber in eve - if you didnt know that 96% of eve were men, you probably did subconsciously and i will just let you think about that.
I know a few women in eve, but now that i think about it i probably do know 50 males to one or two females.
How to attract more? You cant, its the curse of the internet and the nature of the spaceship beast, girls just dont like huge metal ships in a vacuum it seems. CCP Eterne, how is this post not inappropriate as well? More misogyny.
Pointing out a perceived statistical psychological difference between the genders hardly qualifies as misogyny.
Similarly; I'm pretty sure I hate you, but it has nothing to do with gender stereotypes.
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
37
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Posted - 2013.06.25 13:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote:S Byerley wrote:Lasairiona Raske wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:I think only slightly gay men cyber in eve - if you didnt know that 96% of eve were men, you probably did subconsciously and i will just let you think about that.
I know a few women in eve, but now that i think about it i probably do know 50 males to one or two females.
How to attract more? You cant, its the curse of the internet and the nature of the spaceship beast, girls just dont like huge metal ships in a vacuum it seems. CCP Eterne, how is this post not inappropriate as well? More misogyny. Pointing out a perceived statistical psychological difference between the genders hardly qualifies as misogyny. Similarly; I'm pretty sure I hate you, but it has nothing to do with gender stereotypes. I don't know who you are.
I'm someone who doesn't care for intolerance masqueraded as morality. I'm an open book if you care to know anything else about me.
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
37
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Posted - 2013.06.25 14:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote: Message me then. We'll see if you know as much about me as you seem to think.
Unless your original post was in jest/sarcasm (in which case some public clarification would presumably be to your benefit), I know as much as I care to. Projecting hatred into benign discourse is one of the extremely few things in this world I won't stand for. The issue causes me some amount of dissonance, but the line has to be drawn there; otherwise, it's impossible to maintain civil intellectual discussion.
I did overreach when i said I hated you; I guess I was going for a bit of rhetorical snap. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
37
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Maybelater Headache wrote:Maybe said woman should have been aware that asking where she-¦s located is not necessarily a preparation for harassment, and refrain from nasty insults in the first place. It certainly would have helped the situation. Like I said, there were two perspectives with no overlap, and the whole story was sad. Awareness of perspective is not "walking on eggshells," it's awareness of perspective--empathy, if you prefer. Parking lots, elevators and garages are scary places for women to encounter men because of crimes men commit against women in those places, and so their caution is entirely rational. It's also easy to defuse, or at least lessen, that caution by a) not committing those crimes, and b) not acting like you're about to. This is just decency, akin to not making loud percussive noises around veterans with PTSD. There are no eggshells involved.
I'm not sure how fleet comms on Eve escalate into parking garage ****.
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
38
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Posted - 2013.06.26 00:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote:S Byerley wrote:Lasairiona Raske wrote: Message me then. We'll see if you know as much about me as you seem to think.
Unless your original post was in jest/sarcasm (in which case some public clarification would presumably be to your benefit), I know as much as I care to. Projecting hatred into benign discourse is one of the extremely few things in this world I won't stand for. The issue causes me some amount of dissonance, but the line has to be drawn there; otherwise, it's impossible to maintain civil intellectual discussion. I did overreach when i said I hated you; I guess I was going for a bit of rhetorical punch. Apology accepted, I think....
I wouldn't read to much into it. If I were to start hating people, I'd hate them for their ideologies and yours would be high on the list.
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
68
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Posted - 2013.07.02 12:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote:Women are actually better shooters than men. 
Facts say otherwise: http://realbiathlon.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-shoots-better-men-or-women.html
I'd go into the psychological reasons behind why men take trade-offs that women don't, but evidently that would make me sexist. |
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
68
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Posted - 2013.07.02 12:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Which has little to do why women are in fact better shots. Prime reason they are is something physical -- they have shallower respiration. Which is key to shoot tight groups. Unlike in games, in rifle matches it's tight groups that qualify. Headshots only matter in games, usually made by devs if given a rifle to use, would be a hazard at any range!
Better shooter != better shot
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